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Big Dumb Object

The Return of Eir

84 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

On 4/27/2017 at 9:54 PM, Big Dumb Object said:

http://blog.rebirthro.com/woe-barrier-of-entry-smithing/

 

Thor and Eir will be getting this as well.

Eir doesn't need that since it has better options available. Why introduce a whole new gear set when you can just make it easier to get glorious armor? Eir is a prerenewal server that's close to the vanilla in terms of woe. End game gear for most classes comes from BG. If you want to help "bridge the gap," then do what other servers do and give 15+ badges per round and +25 during happy hour.  upgrade rebirthro's shitty bg modes. It's 2017 and you guys don't even have conquest which is the best BG mode you can have to help people learn how to woe better. (that shit came out more than six years ago)

Honestly, 90% of the players in this server that I've met don't pot because they're too poor or too noob.  Increase BG badge rewards, lower item prices of things in BG, lower weight of BG pots to 1. If everyone in the server gets past this no potting issue, then maybe they can survive long enough to develop some skills. 

add @restock if you have someone who knows how to code. 

Edited by Rolo
Classics is pretrans (see edit history)
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Yeah, Eir doesn't need that. 

 

I've been WoE'ing without mvp cards for years (damn Erik taking all of them). Only toyed a bit with garm and orc lord, but aside from that just nox, marc, and thara. 

 

As Rolo said BG is the place to be, and idk if the badges should be increased (+15 badges) but the happy hour sounds good. 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Salacia said:

idk if the badges should be increased (+15 badges) but the happy hour sounds good. 

In WoE/BG servers, bg consumables cost x and woe consumables cost 3x.  An example would be 100 BG condensed white pots (usable in BG only) for 1 BG badge and it'd be 100 WoE condensed white pots for 3 BG badges.  Even with those prices, when you account all the possible consumables people use, each person uses around 500-1500 badges per WoE.(This is for a 90 minute WoE 2.0 map) Servers don't have OP donates that give you +11 all stats so they have to get a ton of consumables from the BG shop. (especially food items to get as close to 150 dex as possible)

Here is an example of what I usually use during the first 30 minutes of woe as a support class with realistic numbers:

60 badges = 900 WoE condensed white potions

50 badges = 500 WoE blue potions

90 badges = 45 speed pots

30 badges = 3x Whole Roast (20 minutes each and sticks after death so it'll last me an hour + they don't usually sell +10 foods in bg)

30 badges = 3x special royal jelly herbal teal (20 minutes each and sticks after death so it'll last me an hour + they don't usually sell +10 foods in bg)

30 badges = 3x soul haunted bread (20 minutes each and sticks after death so it'll last me an hour + they don't usually sell +10 foods in bg)

30 badges = 3x steamed alligator with vegetable (20 minutes each and sticks after death so it'll last me an hour + they don't usually sell +10 foods in bg)

30 badges = 3x sumptuous feast (20 minutes each and sticks after death so it'll last me an hour + they don't usually sell +10 foods in bg)

30 badges = 3x assorted shish kebob (20 minutes each and sticks after death so it'll last me an hour + they don't usually sell +10 foods in bg)

30 badges = 10 authoritative badges

15 badges = 10x awakening/berserk pots

425 badges = total for the first 30 minutes of woe as a support class.

 

Take into account other items you'd be able to get from BG badges = blue/red/yellow gemstones, EDP, AD mats, glistening coats, ninja stones, arrows, and w/e i'm missing

If you were a creo, you'd need about 2k+ of both acid bottles and FCP which means you'll be spending 2-3k BG badges per woe.

 

Honestly though, after I farm the minimum amount of badges I need, the rest of my badges go to saving up for the costume hats they have available which are usually 3k for a mystery box that contains 1 of the 15 seasonal hats.

 

In terms of making money, they sell BG badges in the cash shop for people who don't want to BG, but want to just go and WoE.  They do gear week rentals through BG badges so you can borrow gear and choose w/e card you want on it.  It's pretty cheap (Ex. 50 badges for a week of diablo boots w/ matyr card) and that puts people in a somewhat even match with others.  No one really cares about refining gear because 90% of the damage done is either magic or misc dmg.  I usually play with +4 gear, even in Eir and I do well.

Ultimately, no one here is used to how exciting woe is in the modern ragnarok servers.  They put in guild caps to increase competition = now you have to choose between 24 people (Yes, people are upfront and they kick out shitty players and recruit quality players, which makes shitty players want to get better to be able to play), and you have to set up your classes right with the players(24 guild cap = how many DD creos you running? how many DDhwizs are you going to have? Do I have capable hwizs in my guild? Should i kick XXXX out and recruit this good hwiz who is looking for a guild.) and you have to choose your strategies before woe (are we running one or two soul linkers? how many FS hwiz are we going to run? should we run a status sniper? what class or who will be our ecaller?)

Instead of all that and people focusing on GvGs, people here are just rushing the emp with their GTBs and sinx/stalkers.  That gets boring when one side is defending a choke point and trying to force a fight, and the other guild just tries to speed pot past everytime then defends on a lokis veil.  ANY NOOB CAN PRECAST.  5% of eir knows how to properly GvG.  That's why my guild left.  Why play versus that when you can get quality competitive play elsewhere?  Even the last woe I played here, we defended in aldeberan, w/o loki's veil, and we won 9v13 cause we knew how to GvG any no one else did.  Aaaaaaand that's when the only person in ilu who knew how to GvG properly said, "Sorry 95% of my guild is incompetent" then my guild quit cause he was right.

Edited by Rolo (see edit history)
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5 hours ago, Rolo said:

In WoE/BG servers, bg consumables cost x and woe consumables cost 3x.  An example would be 100 BG condensed white pots (usable in BG only) for 1 BG badge and it'd be 100 WoE condensed white pots for 3 BG badges.  Even with those prices, when you account all the possible consumables people use, each person uses around 500-1500 badges per WoE.(This is for a 90 minute WoE 2.0 map) Servers don't have OP donates that give you +11 all stats so they have to get a ton of consumables from the BG shop. (especially food items to get as close to 150 dex as possible)

Here is an example of what I usually use during the first 30 minutes of woe as a support class with realistic numbers:

60 badges = 900 WoE condensed white potions

50 badges = 500 WoE blue potions

90 badges = 45 speed pots

30 badges = 3x Whole Roast (20 minutes each and sticks after death so it'll last me an hour + they don't usually sell +10 foods in bg)

30 badges = 3x special royal jelly herbal teal (20 minutes each and sticks after death so it'll last me an hour + they don't usually sell +10 foods in bg)

30 badges = 3x soul haunted bread (20 minutes each and sticks after death so it'll last me an hour + they don't usually sell +10 foods in bg)

30 badges = 3x steamed alligator with vegetable (20 minutes each and sticks after death so it'll last me an hour + they don't usually sell +10 foods in bg)

30 badges = 3x sumptuous feast (20 minutes each and sticks after death so it'll last me an hour + they don't usually sell +10 foods in bg)

30 badges = 3x assorted shish kebob (20 minutes each and sticks after death so it'll last me an hour + they don't usually sell +10 foods in bg)

30 badges = 10 authoritative badges

15 badges = 10x awakening/berserk pots

425 badges = total for the first 30 minutes of woe as a support class.

 

Take into account other items you'd be able to get from BG badges = blue/red/yellow gemstones, EDP, AD mats, glistening coats, ninja stones, arrows, and w/e i'm missing

If you were a creo, you'd need about 2k+ of both acid bottles and FCP which means you'll be spending 2-3k BG badges per woe.

 

Honestly though, after I farm the minimum amount of badges I need, the rest of my badges go to saving up for the costume hats they have available which are usually 3k for a mystery box that contains 1 of the 15 seasonal hats.

 

In terms of making money, they sell BG badges in the cash shop for people who don't want to BG, but want to just go and WoE.  They do gear week rentals through BG badges so you can borrow gear and choose w/e card you want on it.  It's pretty cheap (Ex. 50 badges for a week of diablo boots w/ matyr card) and that puts people in a somewhat even match with others.  No one really cares about refining gear because 90% of the damage done is either magic or misc dmg.  I usually play with +4 gear, even in Eir and I do well.

Ultimately, no one here is used to how exciting woe is in the modern ragnarok servers.  They put in guild caps to increase competition = now you have to choose between 24 people (Yes, people are upfront and they kick out shitty players and recruit quality players, which makes shitty players want to get better to be able to play), and you have to set up your classes right with the players(24 guild cap = how many DD creos you running? how many DDhwizs are you going to have? Do I have capable hwizs in my guild? Should i kick XXXX out and recruit this good hwiz who is looking for a guild.) and you have to choose your strategies before woe (are we running one or two soul linkers? how many FS hwiz are we going to run? should we run a status sniper? what class or who will be our ecaller?)

Instead of all that and people focusing on GvGs, people here are just rushing the emp with their GTBs and sinx/stalkers.  That gets boring when one side is defending a choke point and trying to force a fight, and the other guild just tries to speed pot past everytime then defends on a lokis veil.  ANY NOOB CAN PRECAST.  5% of eir knows how to properly GvG.  That's why my guild left.  Why play versus that when you can get quality competitive play elsewhere?  Even the last woe I played here, we defended in aldeberan, w/o loki's veil, and we won 9v13 cause we knew how to GvG any no one else did.  Aaaaaaand that's when the only person in ilu who knew how to GvG properly said, "Sorry 95% of my guild is incompetent" then my guild quit cause he was right.

My famous last words... When all Illu was, was a bunch of random pinoys except a couple people.

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3 hours ago, Hakuu said:

My famous last words... When all Illu was, was a bunch of random pinoys except a couple people.

You know server is dead when the recruitment turns into "we take anyone" 

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8 hours ago, Rolo said:

In WoE/BG servers, bg consumables cost x and woe consumables cost 3x.  An example would be 100 BG condensed white pots (usable in BG only) for 1 BG badge and it'd be 100 WoE condensed white pots for 3 BG badges.  Even with those prices, when you account all the possible consumables people use, each person uses around 500-1500 badges per WoE.(This is for a 90 minute WoE 2.0 map) Servers don't have OP donates that give you +11 all stats so they have to get a ton of consumables from the BG shop. (especially food items to get as close to 150 dex as possible)

Here is an example of what I usually use during the first 30 minutes of woe as a support class with realistic numbers:

60 badges = 900 WoE condensed white potions

50 badges = 500 WoE blue potions

90 badges = 45 speed pots

30 badges = 3x Whole Roast (20 minutes each and sticks after death so it'll last me an hour + they don't usually sell +10 foods in bg)

30 badges = 3x special royal jelly herbal teal (20 minutes each and sticks after death so it'll last me an hour + they don't usually sell +10 foods in bg)

30 badges = 3x soul haunted bread (20 minutes each and sticks after death so it'll last me an hour + they don't usually sell +10 foods in bg)

30 badges = 3x steamed alligator with vegetable (20 minutes each and sticks after death so it'll last me an hour + they don't usually sell +10 foods in bg)

30 badges = 3x sumptuous feast (20 minutes each and sticks after death so it'll last me an hour + they don't usually sell +10 foods in bg)

30 badges = 3x assorted shish kebob (20 minutes each and sticks after death so it'll last me an hour + they don't usually sell +10 foods in bg)

30 badges = 10 authoritative badges

15 badges = 10x awakening/berserk pots

425 badges = total for the first 30 minutes of woe as a support class.

 

Take into account other items you'd be able to get from BG badges = blue/red/yellow gemstones, EDP, AD mats, glistening coats, ninja stones, arrows, and w/e i'm missing

If you were a creo, you'd need about 2k+ of both acid bottles and FCP which means you'll be spending 2-3k BG badges per woe.

 

Honestly though, after I farm the minimum amount of badges I need, the rest of my badges go to saving up for the costume hats they have available which are usually 3k for a mystery box that contains 1 of the 15 seasonal hats.

 

In terms of making money, they sell BG badges in the cash shop for people who don't want to BG, but want to just go and WoE.  They do gear week rentals through BG badges so you can borrow gear and choose w/e card you want on it.  It's pretty cheap (Ex. 50 badges for a week of diablo boots w/ matyr card) and that puts people in a somewhat even match with others.  No one really cares about refining gear because 90% of the damage done is either magic or misc dmg.  I usually play with +4 gear, even in Eir and I do well.

Ultimately, no one here is used to how exciting woe is in the modern ragnarok servers.  They put in guild caps to increase competition = now you have to choose between 24 people (Yes, people are upfront and they kick out shitty players and recruit quality players, which makes shitty players want to get better to be able to play), and you have to set up your classes right with the players(24 guild cap = how many DD creos you running? how many DDhwizs are you going to have? Do I have capable hwizs in my guild? Should i kick XXXX out and recruit this good hwiz who is looking for a guild.) and you have to choose your strategies before woe (are we running one or two soul linkers? how many FS hwiz are we going to run? should we run a status sniper? what class or who will be our ecaller?)

Instead of all that and people focusing on GvGs, people here are just rushing the emp with their GTBs and sinx/stalkers.  That gets boring when one side is defending a choke point and trying to force a fight, and the other guild just tries to speed pot past everytime then defends on a lokis veil.  ANY NOOB CAN PRECAST.  5% of eir knows how to properly GvG.  That's why my guild left.  Why play versus that when you can get quality competitive play elsewhere?  Even the last woe I played here, we defended in aldeberan, w/o loki's veil, and we won 9v13 cause we knew how to GvG any no one else did.  Aaaaaaand that's when the only person in ilu who knew how to GvG properly said, "Sorry 95% of my guild is incompetent" then my guild quit cause he was right.

You forget one thing though :> Eir isn't and will prolly not be a BG/WoE orientated server. Farming stuff in PvE actually has a role here. 

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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, Salacia said:

You forget one thing though :> Eir isn't and will prolly not be a BG/WoE orientated server. Farming stuff in PvE actually has a role here. 

What's the point of reopening a server if you don't want to fix it or have it grow? Just go outside and work the corner if you need a quick buck.

PvE died before the server did.  it died around the same time conquest came out, if not earlier. Servers have had to work on improving the WoE/BG scene to keep their players. If you look at the most populated mid/low rates, their PvP/WoE scenes are what makes the server.  When the WoE scene dies, the server follows.  If farming/PvE continues to be a priority over the PvP scene in this day (or in the last few years), then a you won't get a large amount of quality people to play.  

Andy and I have been pushing for this for years, but nothing has changed because all the bad players think it's not "fair" or they don't want bg consumables to be big because no one will buy their mats anymore. (it's like $300 bucks for the code if you don't know how to write it yourself)   expensive consumables or unavailability of them = no potting from dango/ft/95% of YP/80%of revo. Any noob can wipe all of them with one hand. You literally saw seasomer spamming heal on his guild because they didn't pot.  That's so F*ing sad.  You should never see anyone use heal in WoE. That's an identifier that you're in the low tier woe.  ironically, the servers that have followed our suggestions have 1.9k+ players(to include vendors in a lowrate) on today and they have a WoE population of 300+ and BG going at 30+vs30+ consistently throughout the week.

Also, stop hiring "Event" GMS.  go automate that shit and hire developers.  You can have 1000 event gms, but it won't do any good to the server if you aren't going to modernize the servers.

On 4/24/2017 at 3:56 PM, Hakuu said:

Without proper changes to core game-play I can assure you without a shadow of a doubt, most veterans won't even consider coming back.

4: Vendors for BG Supplies and WoE Supplies. 1-3 zeny each. Restricted WoE/BG ONLY. This will make WoE active again.

 

On 4/25/2017 at 10:49 PM, Hakuu said:

2: Introduce BG/WoE Supply vendors.

and even if those things do happen, which they should, what is the selling point for Eir to new players? Just another low rate with over powered customs? There are plenty of well active low rates on the market already with sub 500 players at all times. How do you compete with them? Answer is, unless you make drastic changes, you can't.

Fuck it, I agree. Wipe everything. Add higher rates, add BG/WoE supply Vendors, lower MVP Card drop rate.

 

Edited by Rolo (see edit history)
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10 hours ago, Rolo said:

What's the point of reopening a server if you don't want to fix it or have it grow? Just go outside and work the corner if you need a quick buck.

PvE died before the server did.  it died around the same time conquest came out, if not earlier. Servers have had to work on improving the WoE/BG scene to keep their players. If you look at the most populated mid/low rates, their PvP/WoE scenes are what makes the server.  When the WoE scene dies, the server follows.  If farming/PvE continues to be a priority over the PvP scene in this day (or in the last few years), then a you won't get a large amount of quality people to play.  

Andy and I have been pushing for this for years, but nothing has changed because all the bad players think it's not "fair" or they don't want bg consumables to be big because no one will buy their mats anymore. (it's like $300 bucks for the code if you don't know how to write it yourself)   expensive consumables or unavailability of them = no potting from dango/ft/95% of YP/80%of revo. Any noob can wipe all of them with one hand. You literally saw seasomer spamming heal on his guild because they didn't pot.  That's so F*ing sad.  You should never see anyone use heal in WoE. That's an identifier that you're in the low tier woe.  ironically, the servers that have followed our suggestions have 1.9k+ players(to include vendors in a lowrate) on today and they have a WoE population of 300+ and BG going at 30+vs30+ consistently throughout the week.

Also, stop hiring "Event" GMS.  go automate that shit and hire developers.  You can have 1000 event gms, but it won't do any good to the server if you aren't going to modernize the servers.

 

 

literally everything i've been saying for the past 3 years

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Look at my shout out! 

On 6/3/2017 at 11:14 AM, Rolo said:

 

Andy and I have been pushing for this for years, but nothing has changed because all the bad players think it's not "fair" or they don't want bg consumables to be big because no one will buy their mats anymore. (it's like $300 bucks for the code if you don't know how to write it yourself)   expensive consumables or unavailability of them = no potting from dango/ft/95% of YP/80%of revo. Any noob can wipe all of them with one hand. You literally saw seasomer spamming heal on his guild because they didn't pot.  That's so F*ing sad.  You should never see anyone use heal in WoE. That's an identifier that you're in the low tier woe.  ironically, the servers that have followed our suggestions have 1.9k+ players(to include vendors in a lowrate) on today and they have a WoE population of 300+ and BG going at 30+vs30+ consistently throughout the week.

 

I ranked my creator, I didn't even heal myself.  It's tough to push people to farm for WoE mats.  I created about all potions requested of me.  A good amount of materials came directly from me for others to use.  I agree with Rolo with a number of things, on removing the overbalances from WoE (MVPs/Donates).  And factor in some easier(more fun) to obtain potions to use in said WoEs.

 

The newbie having challenges is not a new issue.  When I joined there was already a dominate guild made of veteran players.  There really wasn't much reason for me to stick around, I tried to make it competitive.  When it became competitive, it turned into a competition of who could recruit more.  One guild, or the 3-4 opposing them.

 

Remember we're talking about an old game here..  PvM dies after a few months of joining the game.  And on a server like Eir, when you can literally solo all MVPs.  It dies extra quick.

 

My suggestions.

1.) Wipe all Zeny(if Possible, it should start vending/trading again and at reasonable prices).  I'm as rich as they come, money is useless to me because I have about everything and too much zeny.  With the years people have put in, there is probably 250 mil zeny per person on server.  That is a large obstacle for a newbie to overcome.   At least get me to work on warpra money.  This obstacle(zeny and gears) was also part of the reason why newbies would join a 'side' of the server.

2.) De-upgrade gears.  Thinking this would be too much work.  Or not?  It'll help a little on removing veteran advantages.

3.) Remove donates, god items, MVPs from WoE.  I'd settle for any or all of the 3 being removed.  Or even having 1 castle to allow such items and the other 4 to not, I'd appreciate a change.  I'm okay with after cast, but with removal of said other things, it may need to be placed to 100% delay.

4.) Remove warp to MVP maps.  Re-allow memo on world maps, this makes doing quests long :(.

5.) Conquest BG Pots etc(Not my idea, but I've seen it on other servers before I quit here initially.  I'd be all for this)

6.) About anything to give new players an incentive.  That doesn't really effect/matter much to those still playing.

 

I directly get removed benefits from all of the above and having pots/ranked creator, the bg pots actually helps others out more than myself(not that I won't still use mine).

(Notice I didn't say a complete wipe or removal of all gears, old player could still return and be mostly happy.  Like myself, I'd still see work that needs to be done.)

PS: I actually liked having myself locked out of accounts, losing my items in cStorage and other bugs(quests) of inconvenience as I came back.  It made me work a little.
PPS: I'm having Deja Vu, didn't I quote Rolo on something similar before I left years ago?

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